Comments on: Zimbardo http://www.huggin.net/blog/2004/05/13/zimbardo/ raising loki in okie land Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:10:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Mitch http://www.huggin.net/blog/2004/05/13/zimbardo/#comment-175 Mitch Sat, 15 May 2004 08:02:00 +0000 http://www.huggin.net/blog/?p=144#comment-175 Kerim has posted about this too: http://keywords.oxus.net/archives/000578.html Kerim has posted about this too:

http://keywords.oxus.net/archives/000578.html

]]> By: Mitch http://www.huggin.net/blog/2004/05/13/zimbardo/#comment-174 Mitch Fri, 14 May 2004 06:32:52 +0000 http://www.huggin.net/blog/?p=144#comment-174 Carleen - one more thing. There is an absolutely awesome movie I watched with Sayaka that you NEED to see if you are interested in the Zimbardo experiment: Das Experiment (Japanese title "Es"). Sayaka wrote a review of it (in Japanese: http://www.securitygirl.net/sayaka/books.html) and I think it might be one of her current favorite movies. More info on the movie here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250258/ Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009AVA8/ It is a great German movie and done really well. Carleen - one more thing. There is an absolutely awesome movie I watched with Sayaka that you NEED to see if you are interested in the Zimbardo experiment: Das Experiment (Japanese title “Es”).

Sayaka wrote a review of it (in Japanese: http://www.securitygirl.net/sayaka/books.html) and I think it might be one of her current favorite movies.

More info on the movie here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250258/

Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009AVA8/

It is a great German movie and done really well.

]]> By: Mitch http://www.huggin.net/blog/2004/05/13/zimbardo/#comment-173 Mitch Fri, 14 May 2004 06:22:14 +0000 http://www.huggin.net/blog/?p=144#comment-173 Hey Carleen. I'm back in Stavanger, had my first dinner and bfast with the Nilsen crowd. Your posting was careful and thoughtful, well done. I especially like your realization that, "War is war. Liberator’s, enemies, emancipators, antagonists, friend, foe. It makes no difference. We’re all the same. Don’t they get it?" We need to get over the idea that this is a war for "justice" "freedom" and "democracy". Forging this link is a powerful rhetorical move, which is inevitably made in modern wars, but your postings indicates that you are not convinced - as you should not be. We can all hope for the best, even now that things have truly gone to hell in this war, but let us also hope that a new generation of Americans will be reminded that, "No, we too are capable of being animals, those people actually don't want us around, and NO - we are not angels of mercy in a world of the dark and selfish." What "old Europeans," with their long colonial history and the experience of civil war on their continent have understood that America tends to forget every decade or two: Nations act primarily for the Nation's benefit, Nation does not equal "the People", that war and occupation is an ineffective mother of democracy in the absence of appropriate conditions, and most importantly, our countries have no monopoly on virtue. America still believes it has, if not a monopoly, then at least a guiding role as a symbol of virtue. Its light and military power stand alone against the cold storms of evil in the world. No one else will "sacrifice", no one else will "take a stand" and no one else will have the courage to defy international law and the petty squabbling of weaker lands to advance the causes of justice against the sinister forces of terrorism, tyranny, and.......torture. I say let the uneasiness spread, let the cold knob of discomfort sink into our gut, and the alarm bells of hypocrisy, arrogance, and even panic ring loudly in all our minds. Once suppressed, and we are allowed to continue with our day, these emotions will faithfully surface again when they are needed. Hey Carleen. I’m back in Stavanger, had my first dinner and bfast with the Nilsen crowd. Your posting was careful and thoughtful, well done. I especially like your realization that, “War is war. Liberator’s, enemies, emancipators, antagonists, friend, foe. It makes no difference. We’re all the same. Don’t they get it?”

We need to get over the idea that this is a war for “justice” “freedom” and “democracy”. Forging this link is a powerful rhetorical move, which is inevitably made in modern wars, but your postings indicates that you are not convinced - as you should not be. We can all hope for the best, even now that things have truly gone to hell in this war, but let us also hope that a new generation of Americans will be reminded that, “No, we too are capable of being animals, those people actually don’t want us around, and NO - we are not angels of mercy in a world of the dark and selfish.” What “old Europeans,” with their long colonial history and the experience of civil war on their continent have understood that America tends to forget every decade or two: Nations act primarily for the Nation’s benefit, Nation does not equal “the People”, that war and occupation is an ineffective mother of democracy in the absence of appropriate conditions, and most importantly, our countries have no monopoly on virtue.

America still believes it has, if not a monopoly, then at least a guiding role as a symbol of virtue. Its light and military power stand alone against the cold storms of evil in the world. No one else will “sacrifice”, no one else will “take a stand” and no one else will have the courage to defy international law and the petty squabbling of weaker lands to advance the causes of justice against the sinister forces of terrorism, tyranny, and…….torture.

I say let the uneasiness spread, let the cold knob of discomfort sink into our gut, and the alarm bells of hypocrisy, arrogance, and even panic ring loudly in all our minds. Once suppressed, and we are allowed to continue with our day, these emotions will faithfully surface again when they are needed.

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