am I still norwegian?

from: http://www.norway.org.uk/visas/passports/passports.htm

Norwegian citizenship

The Act of 8 December 1950 relating to Norwegian Nationality contains the provisions which define Norwegian nationality and describe how Norwegian nationality is acquired.

For Norwegians living abroad, it is important to note the following:

If you hold Norwegian citizenship, but were born abroad and have never lived in Norway, you may lose the right to Norwegian citizenship upon reaching the age of 22. You may, however, apply to keep your Norwegian citizenship.

fra: http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=7266

I enkelte tilfeller tillater imidlertid loven at søkeren kan ha flere enn ett statsborgerskap. Dette gjelder blant annet i følgende tilfeller:

* Hvis du er født til dobbelt statsborgerskap fordi du har norsk og utenlandsk statsborgerskap etter dine foreldre (for eksempel norsk mor og utenlandsk far)

This is for Tina, in case she visits again…

Carleen and her brother were both born in Norway, I’m Norwegian, their dad is American - we have lived there several times, but moved from Stavanger in 1992 to Oklahoma. They both have dual citizenship, and Mitch often visits Norway, but Carleen has not been back since her honeymoon 5 years ago (her Norwegian passport was renewed then).

Based on these facts, would you know if she’s in danger of losing her Norwegian passport?

Mom - My passport was last renewed in 2003. In the article I noticed this:

Systemet for utstedelse av pass ble sist endret i oktober 2005. Nå har vi en automatisk kobling mot Folkeregisteret som gjør det umulig å skrive ut et norsk pass uten at vedkommende er norsk statsborger, sier Ødegård.

We are in the Folkeregisteret though right? So if we renew in the future, we should be fine as long as we don’t drop out of the Folkeregisteret, right?

In my case, in addition to going back, I have paid taxes on wages I made there when I lived there in ‘99 and during two other summers…I wonder if this also helps keep me “live” in the system…

I think it can’t hurt to go back when we can.

I also think Carleen and I really need to look into how the tax system works. In my case - I would very much like to retire to Norway, or at least would seriously consider it. I feel odd, however, making my income and paying my taxes to various countries outside of Norway and not supporting the elaborate welfare system which will in turn help support me when I retire.

I think we need to sit down one day and find out if the the details of the tax treaty between the two states. I know that it works differently for different countries.

As far as I can see neither of them are in any danger of losing their passports - they are both born there, to a Norwegian parent, and have lived there for parts of their lives. I think it would be very hard to argue that they aren’t Norwegian, based on the info available on the Utlendingsdirekoratet.

It has always seemed to me like no one knows the rules, even embassies. Through the years I’ve always been given conflicting info, and it drives me nuts.

You and Mitch were also given your Norwegian passports by mistake the first time - this was when we lived in Aberdeen and we were in Norway on vacation.

When you were born, the Norwegian law was such that children born to a foreign father automatically took the nationality of the father only. This means you were American only until the mid 1980’s when I got you Norwegian passports the first time, because I had found out that the law had changed in Norway by then, probably because of all the cases of kidnapping by foreign fathers, and the existing law left the mother with no rights whatsoever. But I just got them through the Police Office, and didn’t find out until we moved here that I actually had to “apply”, rather than “request” which I had done the first time. The second time around I did go through all the proper authorities, including the American Embassy, and filled out alll the proper forms (also endured a nasty treatment at the “Utlendingskontoret” - never in my life experienced anything like it!).

As for the 10 year rule, I believe that actually applies to me as well, though I was born and raised Norwegian. I think it applies to all Norwegian citizens.

I honestly don’t think anyone can take your passports away from you, except, in Mitch’s case, if he should serve in the Norwegian Military - or, in the case of both you, if you don’t visit Norway at the required 10 year intervals.

Carleen, I hope you kept all the papers from our last application, including Linda Duval’s letter proving you went to school in Stavanger.

As far as I can see there is zero chance of you guys losing your Norwegian citizenship.

You are both born before 1st Aug. 1979 so at birth you got the citizenship after your dad, American.

Your mother sent in the “mødremeldingen” (mothers-message) where she applied for Norwegian citizenship and got it. From there and on you were Norwegian citizens.

Now, in what cases can you lose your citizenship? In the Norwegian Citizenship Act (http://www.lovdata.no/all/tl-20050610-051-005.html#26) there are four reasons:
§23 - if you actively acquire another citizenship. You never “actively acquired” your US citizenship, it was automatically granted from your dad.

§24 - If you acquired Norwegian citizenship by birth and have lived in Norway for a cumulative period of less than two years before the age of 22. You did not get Norwegian citizenship by birth, it was applied for later so that does not count either.

Also, it’s only valid for those that turn 22 after 1st Sept. 2006 so that excludes you. Before that the same rule only applied to those that were born outside of Norway. Again it does not apply to you since you are born in Norway.

This is a valid point for your kids though. Since you are Norwegian, so are they and if they want to keep that, they have to live in Norway for a period of more than two years (several stays are cumulative) before they turn 22.

§25 - You apply to be released from your Norwegian citizenship. I guess you’re not going to do that anytime soon.

§26 - If a demand for releasing another citizenship is not followed. This only applies when you have been granted Norwegian citizenship by application and you were granted with the condition that you had to relinquish your other citizenship. I do not believe that any such conditions were applicable when your mother applied for your citizenship. According to the page Tina linked to, http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=7266, your case is one of the few cases where dual citizenship is allowed.

Those are the only conditions I know of in the law where you can lose your citizenship. There are no places in the law that requires you to visit every 10 years or manifest some other attachment to Norway in order to keep your citizenship (except the 22 year old rule above).

The 10 year thing is probably that they meant to tell you that you have to renew your passports every 10 years (which you do). They are only valid for 10 years, however, you do not lose your citizenship if your passport expires. Citizenship grants you the right to have a passport issued, not the other way around.

Just to be sure, I called Utlendingsdirektoratet (Directorate of immigration) and asked about your case (no names) and they’ll get back to me some time next week.

On a side note, there used to be a rule that said you lost your citizenship “by leaving the country for good”. Then you could renew your citizenship every 10 years at a Norwegian consulate. This law was passed in 1888 and replaced in 1924 to only be valid for those born abroad and having never lived in “the kingdom” before the age of 22. This rule was kept in the version of the law passed in 1950 and was the one valid when you were born. If you were born in Norway (you are) that was considered good enough connection to Norway in order to prevent you from losing the citizenship at 22.

So, a lot of information here, but in sum, you have nothing to fear and you’ll be a Norwegian citizen for as long as you live with no further action required.

Thanks so much Glenn!

As you may know this issue has periodically become a big worry for us throughout the years. And to make it even worse, as I said, even embassies appear to be ignorant of the rules at times. For instance, the Norwegian embassy in Houston claimed that I was wrong when I said my children were automatically born American, and that there had never been such a law. Needless to say, after that I didn’t believe much of the other claims she made either, but getting Carleen’s passport renewed that time was a huge ordeal. Seems to me it took almost a year, didn’t it Carleen?

It’s sad that the embassies don’t even know the rules they’re supposed to be working after…

But next time someone is giving you hassle with passports or something, give me their e-mail address and I’ll throw the big red book at them

Here is the official answer from UDI (Directorate of immigration)

“Det gjaldt en norsk borger bosatt i USA, født i 1978 i Norge av norsk mor og amerikansk far.

Det er ingen bestemmelse verken i gjeldende eller tidligere lov om at statsborgerskapet må fornyes.

Tap av statsborgerskap ved fravær fra riket inntrer i henhold til statsborgerlovens § 24 ved fylte 22 år for den som ikke har fått innvilget søknad om bibehold.

Statsborgerloven av 1950 fastsatte i § 8 tap ved fylte 22 år for norsk borger som var født i utlandet og aldri hadde bodd i riket, også om personen hadde fått sitt statsborgerskap ved såkalt mødremelding.

Spørsmålet om tap av statsborgerskap for personen i dette tilfellet må vurderes ut fra loven som gjaldt på det tidspunkt hun fylte 22 år, dvs. loven av 1950. I og med at hun er født i Norge, kom ikke tapsbestemmelsen i 1950-lovens § 8 til anvendelse.

Se ellers informasjon på Utledningsdirektoratets nettsider:
http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=8539, og
http://www.udi.no/templates/Page.aspx?id=8442

Hilsen
Opplysningstjenesten i Utlendingsdirektoratet”

In short, what I said. You’re all three in the clear.